Biblical Justice
He said to the judges, “Consider what you are doing, for you do not judge for man but for the Lord who is with you when you render judgment.” 2 Chronicles 19:6 NASB
For the Lord – A moment’s reflection on the systems of justice in the world today demonstrates just how pagan our cultures really are. Can you give me just one example where the legal system judges according to this verse? The key is the Hebrew word la-YHWH (“for the LORD”). According to Chronicles, the role of the judge is to reflect perfectly the character of God. “The judges must fear the LORD. They must not judge on the basis of partiality or bribes but, according to the description of the Chronicler, must represent the righteous judgment of God himself.”[1] Does this happen? Yes, you might say that the system of jurisprudence is intended to treat all fairly and prevent corruption, but does that really occur? And even if it does in some cases, the real question is this: “Do these judges and judgments reflect the character of God?” Frankly, I doubt it. Torah is not the basis of today’s legal system. The Ten Commandments are merely “historical guidelines” for legal actions and usually have no impact on the actual verdicts. If they did, we would not protest capital punishment, for example. No, today pagan justice prevails.
Perhaps that’s why Paul exhorts believers to settle things before you end up in court because even in the first century the courts were thoroughly pagan. There is no fear of God there. When you put yourself in the hands of the legal system, you are subjecting yourself to the will of men. God has been left out of the picture for quite awhile now.
Of course, for justice to prevail citizens must also reflect its statutes. When the Chronicler requires the judges to make determinations on the basis of God’s character, he does not exempt anyone else. We, all of us, are asked to consider what we are doing according to the character of the Lord. And how will we do that if we don’t know His character? Please don’t give me the “love everyone” answer. Laws to live by are not general principles. They are specific applications. The speed limit sign does not say “Drive at whatever you think to be a safe speed.” It says “35 MPH,” period! In the same way, “Love the Lord your God will all your heart, mind and whatever” isn’t specific. It needs the rest of the Torah to work. That’s why Yeshua says everything else hangs on this. Without everything else, it just a principle hanging in space, a motto chiseled over the door. If we are going to judge according to the character of God, we need God to tell us the details. “35 MPH.”
When you read God’s instructions to Israel in Torah, you are not reading regulations. You are reading the specifics of the great principle. The specifics tell you if you are applying the great principle correctly. Then you know you are living “for the Lord.”
Topical Index: la-YHWH, for the Lord, jurisprudence, laws, 2 Chronicles 19:6
“No, today pagan justice prevails.”
It is not justice that people seek through the political/legal system: It is salvation. Pagan “justice” is messianic in its purpose, unlike Torah which was not messianic in the least. Though it did point to the true Messiah.
“A true government, therefore, rules by virtue of its power and readiness to punish those who do evil. When a government fails in this function, it ceases to be a government. When it uses its powers in a frantic effort to regulate commerce, teach children, care for the poor and control individual wealth, it becomes a monster. Interestingly enough, the confounding of power brought about by using the power of government for the works of peace also corrupts the punishing powers themselves and tyranny always leaves anarchy in its wake.” – Rev. T. Robert Ingram.
Ian, you have given me a lot of food for thought. America has the Department of Justice, not the Department of Salvation. A lesser thought of mine, probably. I understand a lot better when I have some practical examples in front of me. How is pagan “justice” messianic in its purpose, as you say, and how is Torah “not messianic in the least”?
And are you the Ian Hodge of bibilicallandmarks.com?
Thomas,
By messianic I mean in terms of salvation. Torah is not salvation by law. It simply identifies what sin is and the appropriate action to be taken in terms of restitution to God and to the victim. In this sense it is different to pagan law structures which attempt to “save” man by a process that leads to totalitarianism – total law, in order to save man from himself and the human condition.
Two good books on this topic: Thomas Sowell, Visions of the Anointed, and a far more theological construct by R.J. Rushdoony, Politics of Guilt and Pity, especially IV:7: “The State as Prophet and Logos.”
And yes, I am that Ian Hodge.
Are you saying that when people go through our legal system the don’t necessarily want true judgement towards them, but leniency and reprieve from what they truly deserve – thus salvation? That pagan “justice” is bent in this direction, acting as the sole power of someone’s destiny in particular and all instances of life-acting as the source of salvation?
That Torah wasn’t this way, that is, seeking to give reprieve, but to specifically illuminate where a person has failed in regard to righteousness? And Torah pointed to the true Messiah by providing the path which the true Messiah needed to walk in order to qualify as the real Messiah thus acting as a vehicle in identifying Messiah?
Just trying to rephrase your words to see if I understand what you stated.
Hi Michael,
Outside of the Messiah, no one seeks true justice for himself, for the “wages of sin is death”. The legal/political structures of our modern nations therefore attempt to “heal” man’s consciousness of his own sin by providing an alternative mechanism for atonement. The pagan law structures Skip identifies attempt to reconcile “sinners” to the political order, not to their Creator – Elohim. In the pagan view, sin is sin against “society” – the political order – not against YHVH.
~ ADONAI, that I may receive my sight.. ~
Love everyone. Love God. Love people. “Thou shalt.”
“If Only.” If only we (the people) would -read and follow label directions. The Law (Torah) of the LORD. “If only” we would pay attention (heed)) and do “what He says..”- (shema or hearken).
“If only” every man, every woman, every child, every person on this green planet would walk and live and eat and breath and yes, “love one another with a pure heart fervently..”- If only, we could… No. If only we would; love is a choice.
We, who are alive and well and are living creatures on this very day have absolutely “no excuse” not to do so. To love God (supremely) and to love people- ALL people. ALL people- everywhere. No matter the race, no matter the religious background or political party, no matter the sex- males and females- ALL are included in the love of God. There is no love in a lawyer’s office, but the Law has been established and is established and will remain “for our sakes!” 100mph in a school zone is not a safe speed! The Law has been established for our “shalom”- for our safety, and for our well-being. God says rest on the 7th day. “Get some rest, Pam, -you look tired.” God wants us (ALL) to be healthy-happy -(but most of all)- holy. BE HOLY FOR I AM HOLY!.
Please, please.. listen- and this gospel will set you free and you will be free indeed!
Holiness is NOT the way to Christ!- Christ IS THE way of holiness!
He is THE way, THE truth and THE Life. Christ IS ALL and in you all. Christ is the center, Christ is the compass – and Christ IS the circumference!
~ For *in Him* we live and move and have our being ~ Not only are we *in Him* (Why the “*”?)- because our being “in Christ” is the key to the kingdom! ARE YOU IN..? And if not- why not?
~ Christ in you – the hope of glory! ~ Oh, I do hope a “get a puppy for my birthday” kind of hope? NOO! Biblical hope, unlike any other- is a “Know So”- kind of hope! A glad expectancy! I “KNOW” I am going to get a puppy! But forget the cute lil’ puppy, what do we (all) have *in Christ?*
WoW!- and more WoW! I’ll start right here- and probably finish “right here!” – The long, long (never-ending) list, starts (and ends) with “it is written!” It is only that we “look and live!” What more can we say than to you “HE has said!”- And the word of the LORD came unto..And the word of the LORD came unto..And the word of the LORD came unto.. Stop! Enough already. When (oh when?) is the word of the LORD going to penetrate or even break the seemingly impenetrable “rock” that sits on top of our neck? What we (desperately) need today is a penetrating bunker-buster bomb!
~ Is not my word like fire, declares the LORD, and like a hammer that breaks (my impenitent heart) the rock in pieces? ~ (Jeremiah 23.29)
When will “the word of the LORD”.. (say, whose words are these?) When will the word of the LORD break my heart, break my will, – break me to pieces? Slice/dice, and burn the house down? – “May it be so- Amein!”
Friends, what we (all) need to do today, -(all we need do today)- is to “welcome the Word..” And I’ll ask the question that begs to be asked: “Why?”
Why welcome the Word? The living word of God and the written word of God are (also) One. “It is written” is not there for our entertainment or amusement or to give us something to think about or even study on Sunday (or Saturday for that matter!). No. These words, the words of the living God, “all scripture” (the TaNaKh, the Torah-Prophets-Writings) all reveal and speak of SomeOne who is coming. SomeOne who has come, and SomeOne who is “yet to be.” Here, (in the TaNaKh we find the shadow, but not the substance. But (the promised) ONE is coming. -After the TaNaKh, four hundred years of silence- until..
There is a division, there is a decided difference between the Old Covenant (testament) and the New, and that difference is a Deliver- “a SAVIOR who is Christ the LORD.” The (long-promised) Messiah HAS come. And friends, THIS is the game-changer. He came “in the flesh,” but He did not come “as per expected..”
“Superman” did not appear in all of His glory. ONE who would crush all opposition beneath His feet did not appear- “the first time.” Behold the Lamb- this time. (Behold the Lion-the next!) Born in a barn in Bethlehem to an obscure peasant family. Yes, but again.. “why?”
For thirty three years, the “Word of God” lived among us and He went about doing good. While John the Immerser spent the end of his days languishing in prison he might have doubted the mission of the very ONE he announced as “the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of Israel -(Israel only?)- no…- the sins of THE WORLD” -for this Savior belongs to the nations- (all of them!). “Are you the Messiah we’ve been expecting, or should we keep looking for someone else?” Yeshua answered and He said to them, “Go relate to Yohannan those things that you hear and see.” (Matthew 11.4) Go, and preach to the preacher?? Even John had his moments of weakness and so did Peter, and so did Abraham, and so did David – and so have I! -but He (Hallelujah!) gives more grace!
Did John then pray like this? ~ LORD, I believe… please (forgive and) help my unbelief. ~ “Forgive me ADONAI , that I ever doubted You.” Amein. ~ But with You there is forgiveness, that You may be feared ~ (Psalm 130.4)
John was beheaded, but in the end, when he was face to face with the falling sword, did he die peacefully? smiling? Remembering what was, and dreaming of what was yet to be?
~ Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of His saints ~ (Psalm 116.15)
~ You will keep in perfect peace ALL who trust in You, ALL whose thoughts are fixed on You! ~
(Isaiah 26.3)
~ and the word of the LORD came to..~
(John the Immerser, and Adam, and Moses, and David, and Solomon, and..)
and the word of the LORD came to.. “seek and to save that which was lost..”
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind but now I see.
Carl, your piece today is excellent!
Blessings on you, brother
Stricken, smitten, and afflicted,
See Him dying on the Tree!
’Tis the Christ by man rejected;
Yes, my soul, ’tis He, ’tis He!
’Tis the long expected Prophet,
David’s Son, yet David’s LORD;
Proofs I see sufficient of it:
’Tis the True and Faithful Word.
Tell me, ye who hear Him groaning,
Was there ever grief like tHis?
Friends through fear His cause disowning,
Foes insulting His distress:
Many hands were raised to wound Him,
None would interpose to save;
But the deepest stroke that pierced Him
Was the stroke that Justice gave.
Ye who think of sin but lightly,
Nor suppose the evil great,
Here may view its nature rightly,
Here its guilt may estimate.
Mark the Sacrifice appointed!
See Who bears the awful load!
’Tis the Word, the LORD’s Anointed,
Son of Man, and Son of God.
Here we have a firm foundation,
Here the refuge of the lost.
Christ the Rock of our salvation,
Christ the Name on which we boast.
Lamb of God for sinners wounded!
Sacrifice to cancel guilt!
None shall ever be confounded
Who on Him their hope have built.
Skip Moen, you’re saying the world is pagan? Nooooooo
and the judges are corrupt? again, Nooooooo
Lol
In cases of needing justice we must appeal to God and put ourselves in the only safe Hands in the universe. God will work out what concerns you, for it concerns Him also.
I would have you remember that Jacob did get Laban’s goat(s), (You know the story…..one con-artist trying to outdo another con-artist!).
BUT it was because of the grace and providence of God that Jacob came out the winner.
It wasn’t because God was condoning the work of Jacob’s own hands, and his schemes, –it was because God was working out HIS plans.
The parallels between Jacob’s sojourn in Paddan-aram and Israel’s bondage in Egypt would have been plain as they read this by the pen of Moses.
Jacob’s sin necessitated his departure. Joseph’s journey was the result of many sins.
Jacob was a poor man when he went to Paddan-aram, but he left with a large family and great wealth.
Joseph was sent to Egypt a prisoner and a slave; but when the nation emerged at the exodus, they were much increased, and they had considerable wealth.
Laban was judged of God by his wealth being given to Jacob, and Egypt was judged by the wealth that was taken out at the exodus.
” . . . . . . when I see the blood, I will pass over you, . . . . when I smite . . . Egypt.” (Ex. 12: 13)
Can you picture a slain lamb lying dead beside the dwelling of all those slaves?
Nearby the blood had been shed.
As for the little lamb, it’s work was finished. The blood was sprinkled upon the door posts and above the door. Very soon the avenging angel was to pass, wilding the sword of death.
He looked into the doorway of the mightiest ruler of the land and also in the doorway of each and every slave.
What was the avenging angel looking for as he passed every dwelling? Looking for a Hebrew, a gentile, an Israelite?
Not at all. He looked only for the blood of the lamb.
When our allotted days are spent and each one stands before the Righteous Judge of all the earth, He will look for the blood.
(we were all slaves to sin and THE Lamb paid our way out and into the promised land, –and nearby for everyone who calls upon the Name of Jesus is the blood ready to secure you)
I like what someone said: lets keep the main thing the main thing, Chase after wisdom and righteousness, be thankful to God always, He will work out details on our behalf.
Seek first the Kingdom of God, and may God help us to trust in Him instead of courts or chariots or our little empires.
I know of what I speak today and of which is the better part and what is of inestimable value.
I had an uncle take a great portion of land that would have come to me from my father.
But God saw fit for me to let it go without stepping into a court. With God’s help, I reached the point where I sincerely asked it not be laid to my uncle’s account.
I have Jesus, He is mine and I am His. I am rich beyond measure.
“. . . . . . . prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, holding fast the word of life, …” (Phil. 2:14-16).
Yes, hold fast The Word of Life, don’t get involved in the other, for where your treasure is there is your heart also.
When our allotted days are spent and each one stands before the Righteous Judge of all the earth, He will look for the blood.
(we were all slaves to sin and THE Lamb paid our way out and into the promised land, –and nearby for everyone who calls upon the Name of Jesus is the blood ready to secure you)
AMEN DOROTHY… so true
Do we the people pick and choose the Time for God to fulfill the Word as delivered to the Prophets ages ago? Jesus confessed he did not know the Day, the angels don’t know the Day, only God knows the Day.
This is what God inspired the Prophet Micah to write 2750 years ago. The Preacher wrote there is nothing new under the Sun until the Lord makes all things new in the Revelation. Looking in Today’s world, I have to wonder?
They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity.
The heads thereof judge for reward, and the priests thereof teach for hire, and the prophets thereof divine for money: yet will they lean upon the LORD, and say, Is not the LORD among us? none evil can come upon us.
Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
Micah 3:10-12
I know I have seen it in the Bible somewhere in more explicit terms than Micah saw. I’m not sure if I’m paraphrasing Micah but I remember these words: Woe to those who Judge for hire and profit, but not for Justice and Truth.
This transcends exclusively religious notions, extending to the entire secular world.
Micah 3:11?
http://biblehub.com/micah/3-11.htm has cross ref vs, as well.
Thanks for the reference, Dorthy. I may be paraphrasing the ideas in those references by these words, ‘Woe to those who Judge for hire and profit, but not for Justice and Truth’ but I feel almost sure those express words are in the Bible somewhere.
Maybe Carl knows?
http://biblehub.com/micah/3-11.htm (with plenty of cross-references on the side!)
there may be some among us who would spell “prophet”- “profit!”
Our LORD has spoken ~ you cannot serve God and mammon! ~ but also has said ~ the workman is worthy of his wages! ~ What can we do but pray for discernment- and to be ~ wise as serpents, but harmless as doves ~ One reason we have to cause us to celebrate: ~ we (now) have the mind of Christ! ~
We must also remember God deals with those who do not (yet) belong to Him, (those who are not His children) on a “credit” basis.. ( they are storing up wrath unto the day of judgment ), but with His own on more of a cash basis, If we sin (knowingly) and do not repent, chastisement (not punishment!) may be expected in some form or another with the purpose of restoration of right-relationship.
~ My little children, these things write I to you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous: and He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our’s only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. …~
The full weight or judgment of our sin fell upon our LORD Jesus during the (physical)event known as Calvary. He suffered (infinitely) during a finite period of time and “paid in full” the death that was due unto us- “the wages of sin”- which is Death, both physical and spiritual.
His victory “at Calvary” was complete. Sin, Death,the Grave, and Hasatan – “all” thoroughly, completely overcome by and through His death, burial and resurrection. This was God’s master plan of redemption from the time He said, “let it be so..”- in the beginning. Calvary’s Lamb was foreshadowed all through the O.T., but “it came to pass” or was “fleshed out” when a virgin conceived and brought into being, a Son. ~ And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of an only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth ~
~ for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins ~
(Matthew 26.28)
~ Now may the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our LORD Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ~ —Hebrews 13:20-21.
“Perhaps that’s why Paul exhorts believers to settle things before you end up in court because even in the first century the courts were thoroughly pagan.” There is no fear of YHWH there nor awareness of Someone greater than them Who is watching ..and they will have to give account to.
Indeed today’s legal system is pagan in that justice is based on seeking evidence and witnesses, that are totally unreliable, with the many court cases rejecting to be reopened with clear evidence that persons involved were innocent, with proofs by “expert” forensic department that were in error. Shocking!
It was -innocent until proven guilty, not so these days!
DOJ (Dept of Justice)Tells Employees to Verbally Affirm Homosexuality-
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stories/doj-tells-employees-to-verbally-affirm-homosexuality.html
Above is perhaps what LOVE is about, being tolerant, and to co-exist, to bow to their moral standards!
Not so! I will gladly bow the knee and bless YHWH alone!
Shalom Skip.
I thought this post from Facebook today would be appropo “for such a time as this” so through magic of “cut and paste,” I bring it here, to this blogosphere. It’s a bit long for the “tweeters” among us, but it was a very encouraging read to me..
Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it?
Everyone should hear what the judge had to say when he sentenced him.
Ruling by Judge William Young, US District Court.
Prior to sentencing, the Judge asked the defendant if he had anything to say His response: After admitting his guilt to the court for the record, Reid also admitted his ‘allegiance to Osama bin Laden, to Islam, and to the religion of Allah,’ defiantly stating, ‘I think I will not apologize for my actions,’ and told the court ‘I am at war with your country.’
Judge Young then delivered the statement quoted below:
Judge Young: ‘Mr. Richard C. Reid, hearken now to the sentence the Court imposes upon you.
On counts 1, 5 and 6 the Court sentences you to life in prison in the custody of the United States Attorney General. On counts 2, 3, 4 and 7, the Court sentences you to 20 years in prison on each count, the sentence on each count to run consecutively. (That’s 80 years.)
On count 8 the Court sentences you to the mandatory 30 years again, to be served consecutively to the 80 years just imposed. The Court imposes upon you for each of the eight counts a fine of $250,000 that’s an aggregate fine of $2 million. The Court accepts the government’s recommendation with respect to restitution and orders restitution in the amount of $298.17 to AndreBousquet and $5,784 to American Airlines.
The Court imposes upon you an $800 special assessment. The Court imposes upon you five years supervised release simply because the law requires it. But the life sentences are real life sentences so I need go no further.
This is the sentence that is provided for by our statutes. It is a fair and just sentence. It is a righteous sentence.
Now, let me explain this to you. We are not afraid of you or any of your terrorist co-conspirators, Mr. Reid. We are Americans. We have been through the fire before. There is too much war talk here and I say that to everyone with the utmost respect. Here in this court, we deal with individuals as individuals and care for individuals as individuals. As human beings, we reach out for justice.
You are not an enemy combatant. You are a terrorist. You are not a soldier in any war. You are a terrorist. To give you that reference, to call you a soldier, gives you far too much stature. Whether the officers of government do it or your attorney does it, or if you think you are a soldier, you are not—–, you are a terrorist. And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not meet with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice.
So war talk is way out of line in this court You are a big fellow. But you are not that big. You’re no warrior. I’ve known warriors. You are a terrorist. A species of criminal that is guilty of multiple attempted murders. In a very real sense, State Trooper Santiago had it right when you first were taken off that plane and into custody and you wondered where the press and the TV crews were, and he said:
You’re no big deal.
You are no big deal.
What your able counsel and what the equally able United States attorneys have grappled with and what I have as honestly as I know how tried to grapple with, is why you did something so horrific. What was it that led you here to this courtroom today?
I have listened respectfully to what you have to say. And I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself what sort of unfathomable hate led you to do what you are guilty and admit you are guilty of doing? And, I have an answer for you. It may not satisfy you, but as I search this entire record, it comes as close to understanding as I know.
It seems to me you hate the one thing that to us is most precious. You hate our freedom. Our individual freedom. Our individual freedom to live as we choose, to come and go as we choose, to believe or not believe as we individually choose. Here, in this society, the very wind carries freedom. It carries it everywhere from sea to shining sea. It is because we prize individual freedom so much that you are here in this beautiful courtroom, so that everyone can see, truly see, that justice is administered fairly, individually, and discretely. It is for freedom’s sake that your lawyers are striving so vigorously on your behalf, have filed appeals, will go on in their representation of you before other judges.
We Americans are all about freedom. Because we all know that the way we treat you, Mr. Reid, is the measure of our own liberties. Make no mistake though. It is yet true that we will bear any burden; pay any price, to preserve our freedoms. Look around this courtroom. Mark it well. The world is not going to long remember what you or I say here. The day after tomorrow, it will be forgotten, but this, however, will long endure.
Here in this courtroom and courtrooms all across America, the American people will gather to see that justice, individual justice, justice, not war, individual justice is in fact being done. The very President of the United States through his officers will have to come into courtrooms and lay out evidence on which specific matters can be judged and juries of citizens will gather to sit and judge that evidence democratically, to mold and shape and refine our sense of justice.
See that flag, Mr. Reid? That’s the flag of the United States of America. That flag will fly there long after this is all forgotten. That flag stands for freedom. And it always will.
” Mr. Custody Officer. Stand him down.”
Thank you God, for men like this!
The Ten Commandments are merely “historical guidelines” for legal actions and usually have no impact on the actual verdicts. If they did, we would not protest capital punishment, for example.
Skip, I differ with you on this statement. When Cain killed Abel, he was very concerned about capital punishment.
Behold, you have driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from your face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that finds me shall slay me.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Genesis 4:14-15
Unless you can offer some other explanation, this tells me God did not approve of capital punishment long before the 10 Commandments.
With the 2nd murder or taking of another human life, Lamech said, If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
Today killing people and taking human life is a very big business, consuming $trillions of dollars a year on the devices for the killing of people and wanton destruction. That’s just accepted as normal without question. We have fallen a long way.
By persistence and determination, temporal Israel was recreated from the Bible after an absence of 3000 years. By that example, then by the same kind of persistence and determination we can bead the swords into plow shares and the spears into pruning hooks so that the Nations would no longer learn war anymore.
By my individual Faith in God, I was moved to make this Declaration during the Remembrance Day, November 11, 1985 Ceremonies in the hearing of the Governor-General, The Prime Minister, the Military Leaders and the Ambassadors of all the Nations in Ottawa. This was at the Time when it appeared the US and Soviets were headed for a clash for the 1st time since the Cuban Missile crisis:
“Hear O people and Nations, even to the ends of the Earth, the Word of the Lord God who is, and was, and is to come, The Almighty. The Lord has a controversy with the people.
Do you do well to honour the dead, and yet, deny the God of the Living? Why do you follow the vain traditions of men, and make of no effect, the principles of God?
You come here for one hour one day a year in a great show of public patriotism, and then forgetting, go back to work and make the same careless mistakes made by the generations prior to the 1st and 2nd World Wars.
Hitler was killed, but it’s his legacy that remains. A Soviet-American military-industrial complex consuming $trillions of dollars every year, holding the entire World hostage……………………….”
This was long before the world was being held hostage to the War on Terror.
THE DECLARATION
February 23, 2011
http://ray032.com/2011/02/23/the-declaration/
.
Just a quick response. Your comment deserves more but at the point it will have to fall on others to reply.
As for Cain, I think it is important to note that God does not deliver the verdict of capital punishment even though Cain assumes it will be the case (this should also cause us to reconsider the verdict to Adam and the question of the historicity of the Cain account). The fact that Cain assumes capital punishment delivered by MEN must imply that this form of justice was already in place when the story was told (after the exodus) and that it was not merely God’s verdict but also the execution of human justice.
Furthermore, since this story is one of the narrative accounts the forms of basis of the torah delivered on Sinai, we might conclude that it acts as one of the anchor points for the further declaration concerning capital offenses in the rest of Torah (of which there are quite a few).
“this should also cause us to reconsider the verdict to Adam and the question of the historicity of the Cain account”
If this is questionable as being the inerrant word of God, then everything in the scriptures should be questioned.
No man has seen God at any time. Is a Book that may have been edited to suit a cultural agenda all we have?
I didn’t mean to suggest that we question the Word. I only meant that we should seriously investigate the MEANING we attach to the words. There is a lot more here when we regard the issue of the first listening audience, something we often overlook in our penchant to treat the material as if it were written to either the audience of the story or an anonymous audience like us.
Reading the recent articles and discussions, this question just came to my mind and I hope you, Skip, or others in the Community, have a reasonable, plausible explanation?
And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Genesis 1:31
Where did the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil come from and for what purpose if the Creation of God was already all good?
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the Tree of Life.
Genesis 3:22-24
I strongly suggest you read David Fohrman’s book, The Beast the Crouches at the Door, on this subject and on several more deep questions in the Genesis text.
Thank you for this recommendation. I just read a several page synopsis online and I will buy the book. This struck me;
Cain did not give a gift to God; rather he made an offering as a prudential, if glorified insurance policy.
Cain gave to God because Cain wanted security in return. With that, Cain distanced himself from God, rather than the other way around.
Sound familiar?
Have you ever seen a tree standing without a living root system? A tree can keep standing while dead. Over time, it eventually falls. But until that time, it stands and initially you may not recognize it as dead. It gives the appearance of being alive, but although the tell tale signs may take some time to begin, you can’t stop the signs from showing. As such, the point Skip makes is well taken by many…it is the system of man that is flawed…the “root” of the Kingdom has no flaw…that root is Yehsua and His order is perfect, as He obeyed fully and completely and willingly.
I agree that Christianity is a flawed system…from its very inception, it has been a misnomer somewhat. And why name a lifestyle according to unbelievers’ slur makes me wonder also. But I also agree that Judaism as practiced by many, especially the leaders themselves, was seriously flawed and that is why the veil was torn. The tearing of the veil represented that the high priesthood was thoroughly corrupt and could not perform their duties as YHWH intended. They denied Yeshua our Messiah in order to keep their own authority, and it seems this is no different than what many in christian leadership are bent on doing today.
We as believers, it appears to me, have shirked our duty…of course, duty refers to works of some kind, and with that, Christianity remains true to itself. A lot of talk and defending a faith that looks like a mighty oak standing on its own, with all the props but denying the basic fundamentals of its beginnings. That is confusion! Alikened to this, the West appears to be following in the same footsteps, the US and Europe in particular. The claims of its government and laws being based on Biblical principles, is much like the religion it claims to have been founded upon. Now, look at what has happened to the nation that prospered and grew as a result of … you can fill in the blank for yourselves. (Isn’t that what we tend to do anyway?)
I do, however, also see that many are “seeing The Light as described in Psalm 119…and I praise our Father for that and defend every Word HE spoke as I learn more of Him and how He lived. We all must learn to “work” it out and balance our lives according to Scripture. This balance cannot be achieved without the entirety of the whole counsel of the Scripture, and conforming our lives with it. Shabbat Shalom.
I think you overstate the case here. WHile there is no doubt that SOME of the sects of Judaism were attacked for their syncretism with Greek thought (cf. M. Hengel) and some of each sect certainly were rightly accused of hypocrisy, it is not historically accurate to suggest that ALL of any sect were unbelievers or corrupt or even apostate. People are people – good and bad among us all. I don’t think tearing the veil has much to do with religious corruption nor do I think you can make a case that Jewish religious leaders were the epitome of spiritual fraud (although I realize that Christian thinkers have tried to foist this stereotype on “Christian” believers since the beginning of the second century). It is also patently inaccurate to suggest that they denied Yeshua as the Messiah. Obviously thousands of Jews, including the leadership, believed. It is time to clean up the rhetoric and make accurate statements. Christianity thrived on deliberate misinformation about Jews and Judaism in order to define itself, but it did so at the cost of removing itself from the Hebraic world. Time to stop.
The syncretism I wrote of refers to the inclusion of pagan practice within Christianity, not Judaism. My point is related to the fact that we insert our own ideas of right practice, which it seems has been going on from the beginning. Adam, Eve, Cain…My reference to a dead tree standing also refers to christianity and the system that originated in Judaism and grew disproportionately, yet appears to be dead or dying, having separating itself from its Jewish root. I absolutely agree that lumping all people into one leavened or unleavened bunch is not proper. That was not my intent…I think believers come in many shapes and sizes and various stages on their journeys. The dead tree image seemed to line up with a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.
Agreed, with one exception. In my lectures in Jerusalem last week, I demonstrated that Christianity did not grow “out of Judaism” but was rather invented in opposition to Judaism. More on this soon. You would have enjoyed the lectures. Too bad they were not recorded.
Jesus warned we should be careful “how we hear.” It is mentioned so often in the scripture in so many different ways.
Mark 4:23-24
Luke 8:18
How should I “hear” this statement?
“Christianity did not grow “out of Judaism” but was rather INVENTED in opposition to Judaism.”
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
If you put the brethren in remembrance of these things, you shall be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, where unto you have attained.
But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise yourself rather unto Godliness.
For bodily exercise profits little: but Godliness IS PROFITABLE IN ALL THINGS, having promise of THE LIFE THAT NOW IS, and of THAT WHICH IS TO COME.
This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptence.
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.
These things command and teach.
1Timothy4
Skip, I hope your ‘soon’ is in the next few days.
I think it will be in the next few days. Then I will be out of internet for awhile.
Now THAT is going to provoke some thought!!
And the beat goes on….I think the question(s) that we all should be thinking of is who is the drummer we keep step with? Or should I say…are we looking at thoughts of theistic darwinianism?
I anticipate the stomach sensation as another unexpected bump in the road comes along!
Mary, increasingly our pop culture is into Zombies, the living dead.
Is that some kind of sign of the Times or symbol from God, the people in our Western Christian society are materially rich, but Spiritually dead?
What did the blind man see when Christ restored his sight? I see men as trees walking!
There is too much emphasis on miracles of the physical kind in the restoration of sight.
Christ restores Spiritual sight!
Hi Ray,
I think Christ is in the process of healing our infirmities. Thankfully so.
But even to this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
2Corinthians3
Yes, Ray…the same image…somewhat like a shadow…the shadow moves/acts as the figure creating the shadow does. There is a song by Lenny LaBlanc that goes:
Let me be a shadow of Your light
Just a small reflection of a greater love
Let me be a shadow in Your light
That falls on the lost and the lonely…
Blessings.
Mary, thank you for introducing me to Lenny LeBlanc. LeBlanc was my Mother’s Maiden name. She was also named Mary Margaret.
I find this trend fascinating and very sad. Our pop culture is enamored with many profane things and I wonder too if it is a sign of the times of an ever darkening culture. Spiritually dead? In my opinion-yes.
I would love to hear one of Skips lectures on the cruise ship regarding how our culture is shadowing the very path the Roman culture took which led to the destruction of an empire btw.
Honestly, if one does not learn and remember history, the same mistakes will be made over and over. Nothing new under the sun.
Lol! Since I live my life according to Tora, I also stay within speed limits. Before that time I only watched for policecars…
I can and did chuckle at this Kees. 🙂 I can so relate to this and it is such a subtle differance. I am desiring to observe Torah more and more every day. I am not there yet but I am not where I was either. Personally, I am glad Y-H looks into the hearts of men and isn’t impressed by the outward nonsense we like to adorn ourselves with.