A Divided Life

“No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.” Matthew 6:24 NASB

Devoted – Yeshua spoke more about the practical realities of living than anything else. We try to turn his words into theological fodder because it is so much easier to intellectualize the thoughts than it is to let them penetrate our choices for living. As Heschel remarked, “It is easier to study than to pray.” But the words resist this attempt to marginalize them. They push us toward uncomfortable confrontation. And none are more confrontational than these words from Matthew. We can’t serve two masters. We can’t be devoted to two opposing relationships and responsibilities. If we are going to be fully human, we must be integrated, singular in purpose and pursuit, able to commit to one way and not another.

This sounds so good. Of course we want to be dedicated, true-hearted and resolute. But we often find that our lives are a mix of conflicting forces. The yetzer ha’ra masterfully redirects even our most devoted efforts, causing us to waver in our allegiance. Then the yetzer ha’ra reminds us of our vacillation, shaming us for our lack of fidelity. We might repent, but our failure is now part of personal history. It doesn’t go away. And that fact allows the yetzer ha’ra to manufacture the feeling that if other people knew of our moral and spiritual failures, they would despise our hypocrisy. They wouldn’t love us with our failures. They will love us only if we are perfect (or close to it), just like we want to be perfect. Or so we think. This idea seeds the soil of life with addiction.

Addiction is the substitute for acceptance. Within the addictive cycle, I am not rejected. The fantasy world does not judge me as inadequate, unworthy or defective. I can be what I want to be, what I long to be—acknowledged as whole exactly as I am. I don’t have to live up to someone else’s expectations in order to be loved. In my addictive reality, life accepts me. But, of course, it is a fantasy. The more I struggle in a real world where my basic existence is threatened by rejection, the more I will seek addicitive behavior to reduce that pain and keep the threat at bay.

Addictions are long term affairs. It takes time to discover a place of pretended acceptance. It takes effort to cultivate this secret garden. And I have to return to it often enough that it becomes an automatic escape. The old heart has to have been pumping those desires into my bloodstream for a while.

Paul notes the long term threat of addictive behavior when he exhorts us to change our thinking processes. “…and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ” is not an overnight solution. Taking every thought captive is a siege on escape routes. Self-help regimens, external restraints, venue changes and protective mantras are ineffective if they don’t arise from a positive alternative to rejection.

It seems that the biblical approach is actions before thoughts. I don’t control my mind by thinking about it. I am exhorted and expected to do something first rather than try to alter my thinking first and then try to do something. The “fight-fire-with-fire” mentality only burns everyone. In other words, I act against my own grain, serving my neighbor in proportion to my desire to protect myself with escape addictions. And God does the surgery on my thought world.

The tenth commandment is not an exercise in mental gymnastic control. It is a call to action. Try it. You might be surprised.

Brené Brown was the first to offer me the insight into connection. Her TED talk is significant. It must be heard (https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability?language=en). Her research provides the evidence that human beings are “hard-wired for connection,” and it is this single factor that is most influential in our quest for wholeness. Of course, the Bible speaks about this same inescapable need but in spiritual terms, not psychology. God designed us for connection. “It is not good for man to be alone,” is the primal cry for connection. And, as Ms. Brown discovered, it is also the call to vulnerability. Adam needs Havvah not for companionship but for voluntary vulnerability. Without this there is no connection. There is only parallel isolation.

Next came Johaan Hari’s talk about addiction (https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong?language=en). It shouldn’t have been surprising (but it was) that connection is also intimately tied to addiction. Hari discovered that where there is real connection between people, addiction does not flourish. Conversely, the more disconnected people are, the more addictive behaviors become apparent. He specifically notes that cyber-connection is not real connection. What matters is “in your face, flesh and blood” real person-to-person presence. When we don’t have this, we find other ways to fill this essential need. Hari ends with this: “The opposite of addiction is not sobriety. It is connection.” Powerful stuff, indeed.

What this suggests is that the current social media world actually pushes us toward addiction. It is not real connection. It is the copy of true presence. It looks like connection because we are “sharing” with someone else, but the cyber fiber means that we aren’t really in the presence of the other person. We are sharing avatars, unreal personal constructions of ourselves without emotional interplay and interdependence. Michael Moen already noted the effect this is having on the Gen-X population. In private correspondence, he expressed concern that this generation does not know how to deal with real personal confrontation. Simply “unfriending” means there is no need to come to terms with the real emotions of real people. No one in the social media world is likely to show up at the door when you are in serious crisis. Furthermore, Michael observed that this aversion to rejection is creating a world where people want jobs that do not interact with other people. Sitting in front of a computer is much easier. Dating someone who has already been “qualified” in terms of involvement and expectations as a result of social media is not really personal interdependence either. It is mutually agreed upon parallel isolation. People who condition themselves for this kind of controlled involvement are vulnerable to addiction. Why? Because in the absence of real connection the excruciating loneliness of human existence is nearly intolerable, and human beings will choose whatever is necessary to numb that loneliness.

By the way, the “God-shaped vacuum” approach of religion is no solution. While it may be true that human beings are designed in such a way that they must have some kind of spiritual as well as communal connection, filling the hole with God alone doesn’t seem to produce healthy well-being. Mystics, hermits and prophets live very difficult lives, usually misunderstood and removed from any form of vibrant community. Something is still missing in the lives of those who claim God is all that is needed. In fact, the biblical text of Genesis 2 clearly implies that God alone is not enough. Adam still needed his ‘ezer kenegdo. And she needed a man to bless. Becoming one is a process of mutual vulnerability. Let me say that again. Becoming one – that doesn’t mean simply joining forces with another person. It means becoming one with myself as well. I cannot become me alone. That’s the real impact of the verse, “It is not good for man to be alone.” You and I need connection—desperately. And when we don’t find it, we will either die or die trying.

Topical Index: addiction, Brene Brown, Johaan Hari, Matthew 6:24, devoted

 

 

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Alfredo

It seems to me that these verses are appropiate to this TW.

Hebrews 10:23-25 New International Version (NIV)
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

I would only comment that this “meeting together” is not about going to church, sit down to hear the preacher and get out of church to go home…

Meeting in small groups of bible study, where people tend to open themselves to others and actually become friends (as in brotherhood) and support each other in life’s issues, might be a “modern” way of the kind of “meeting together” that the writer of Hebrews might have had in mind when writing this passage.

Surely, we all should strive to reach that “Day” that is approaching, but it should be together, like bunches of grapes… as we are the “fruits” of the True Vine

John 15:1 New International Version (NIV)
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener.”

Brett Weiner B.B.( brother Brett)

” the church” Paul describes as a mystery, which he reveals… As a family.
We have a Heavenly Father, which we often neglect. He Longs for us to come up onto his lap and listen to his advice, counsel, support, all in the bonds of love that he has for us. I always thought it quite interesting in the given Passage. That we love one and despise the other at the same time. Dual Focus. Could it be all about balance. Being in the word continually praying. In our hardships the footprints in the sand remind us that he carries us. Life by itself is a hardship. He always wants to carry us no matter what.

Leslee Simler

Thank you, Skip! You have beautifully worded what my son and my best friend and I have been dialoguing about over several weeks. “Cyber” sucks! The vacuum of aloneness/loneliness eats away at us.

Brene Brown’s current book, “Braving the Wilderness” and her brief presentation at a “Super Soul” presentation with Oprah Winfrey (search YouTube for “Brene Anatomy Trust super soul” and watch the Lein Infinite Intelligence post of it – 24 minutes) are helping me tremendously as I work through the addictive behaviors that I have allowed to substitute for real connection.

I live in a community, but I DON’T HAVE COMMUNITY. Community, connection, is HARD WORK, especially because we have been being programmed to avoid vulnerability at all costs. I need what Brene calls “marble jar” relationships. When trust has been violated or is being avoided, I need to be able to voice which PART of trust has been damaged. When I understand the fullness of trust I will understand how to walk in proper relationship with my fellow. NO MORE DIVISION!

Pam wingo

I agree Skip in what you say ,but think the verse is pretty specific about serving YHWH or wealth. I appreciate your out of the box thinking,but sometimes it leads to throwing out everything in the box. Not many are called to be rich because they cannot handle it even Solomon proved that .Both call for devotion. It’s obvious which one most people choose. Even many believers say you can have both but be careful it can bring you to ruin in this world or the next if not properly discerned.

Jerry and Lisa

As usual, very good insights. But let’s face it! And to really “face it”, the TRUTH that is, we HAVE to stick to using biblical concepts and terms and not merely humanistic, secular ones. This is not just about “addiction” and being “vulnerable and connected to others”. This is, first and foremost, about, at least, the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd of the “ten commandments”. This is primarily about 1) not having other gods before YHWH, 2) not serving idols (IDOLATRY), and 3) not taking His name in vain!

This is not just about the “addiction” of looking to and depending too much upon something or someone else to satisfy us, and about being “vulnerable and connected to other people” to avoid addiction, although that is partly what is going on here, what we need, and why we should do what we ought to do – YHWH DOES want us to be satisfied.

And this is not about “opposing relationships”, necessarily. Is YHWH opposed to money? No! Alcohol? No. Sex? No. Food? No. Etc., etc.. He’s actually not OPPOSED to many things at all, but has giving us every GOOD thing to enjoy (excluding things He has specifically instructed us not to do for our own good).

“Direct those who are rich in this present age not to be proud or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but rather on God—who richly provides us with everything to enjoy.” [1Ti 6:17]

But He IS, COMPLETELY opposed to us having ANY other MASTER (gods/elohim/sources/powers), BEFORE OR ABOVE Him! We actually even need and DO have other masters, even gods/elohim/sources/powers, don’t we? For example, YHWH even instructs us as servants to obey our “masters”.

“Servants, obey your human masters in every respect—not just within your master’s sight as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord.” [Col 3:22]

However, the yetzer ha’ra, even the “devil”, even Hasatan, even WE, when we have the inclination for evil, are SPECIFICALLY opposed to having HIM as our UNRIVALED Master!

“Therefore, put to death what is earthly in you—sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desire, and greed—for that is idolatry.” [Col 3:5]

This is about not having any other gods, elohim, sources, powers, before or above HIM! Being vulnerable and connected with others is not enough, for even HOMOSEXUALS (notice the Biblical word is being used here and not “gays”) can be vulnerable and connected to others and experience acceptance vs. rejection from one another. Even being vulnerable and connected to others can be an “addiction”. Remember the concept and term “CO-DEPENDENCY”? In attempt to be vulnerable and connected with others we can become MAN-PLEASERS! That’s ALSO something about which we ought to be vigilant, lest in seeking to overcome “addictions” and find connection with others, we are still found compromising YHWH! And one sure sign of that is FLATTERY…..and relishing in it!

However, we do very much appreciate these insights and concepts about being dividing (fractured) within ourselves, disconnected, and about addictions that can result. And it is His wisdom that we are being exhorted to be vulnerable and connected to others, to “walk in the light” with one another. To ALL of that, we say, “Yes and AMEIN!”

“Now this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you—that God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with Him and keep walking in the darkness, we are lying and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of His Son Yeshua purifies us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.” [1Jn 1:5-10]

Laurita Hayes

Thank you, Jerry and Lisa. You guys are new AND fun!

No one of us can see it all. We are the blind men trying to figure out the elephant, that’s for sure!

I was addicted to an addict so I feel I can relate to what both you and Skip are saying here. The key is ORDER, which you help clarify (thank you). “Inordinate affection” is about not putting first One first. None of us can supply love; we only can get it to give if we are plugged in to the Source first. That’s the order. First Command before Tenth. Yes.

Having said that, I think Skip realizes that he does not necessarily attract people who are unschooled in the basics. He is pushing edges to see what gives, like a caged elephant who is continually testing the bars and hinges to see if anything rattles. It’s a bad habit that we who have been burned (deceived) so badly are prone to do. Speaking for myself, I can say it is not that I disapprove of the edges, I think, as much as I am trying to reestablish where they really are. I apologize for myself because I feel like an unruly kid who can’t sit still in school; you know, the kind who can only learn with their mouth open? The worst kind, but I got burned the other way so bad I can’t go back, and so find myself trying to learn in my old age how to learn by means of the way I used to look down on with the most disdain. I think it may be part of my humiliation education, perhaps?

Thanks again for both of you and the value and perspective you bring.

Pam wingo

Skip does not attract people who are unschooled in the basics! Can you clarify that one Laurita.

Laurita Hayes

I am guessing for sure, and need correction too, if I am out of line, but so often he charges into something several floors up. I find myself scrambling a LOT to catch up. He knows his audience, I am sure, but his confidence in their ability to keep up amazes me. It does not feel like Sunday School class much here.

Pam wingo

Thanks Laurita for your explanation. I appreciate Skip immensely but I never feel the need to scramble to keep up with or that he is several floors above us.He is just a man with different insights that can benefit us at times.

Laurita Hayes

That’s what I hope eventually rubs off on me, Pam. I don’t share his background, so I have to go find stuff. So glad for the internet, and his references. I am still in grade school on things others may take for granted, I guess. I am quite sure it shows, too. This is an elegant community, to me.

Pam wingo

You are definitely out of grade school. I have appreciated your insights many times and you are far more thoughtful than myself it’s quite obvious ,I am more of a black and white thinker ,but that’s needful too. I work at balance also . I do not think anybody on this website is in grade school they are mature believers, hardly perfect,but mature. Skip is a facilitator and promotes dialogue and yes challenges us but know he is not in competition with us, nor laud his knowledge over us so we become some adoring fan club. That’s why I appreciate this website also.

Michael Stanley

Jerry and Lisa,
I doubt that you intended to have your comment strike me as being critical of Skip, but it did. However, I write not out of a reaction to you personally (and my likely misrepresentation of your intent), but out of general principal for the topic you introduced. That seems to be the way I process MY stuff. Sorry if I offend you or others in my ramblings.

Perhaps the greatest folly we human beings have attempted through the ages is to try to return the favor to our creator and attempt to create “God in our own image”. We need to be careful NOT to apply the same strategy to others to whom we are related, even slightly. By definition our expectations of others cannot be neutral. We measure our esteem for others either miserly or generously, but we should make every effort to allow others to be right where they are – without public criticism, critique, comment or control. That is the way I see how Yeshua dealt with everyone, both then and now. Prayer and personal example are the only acceptable currencies in this venue. In my current worldview everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be, because …that is where they are. Reality. Would I, if given omnipotence, change people, (especially myself) and things for the better, making it easier for myself and others…Yes, but it’s a good thing that I don’t have that power because the future good, dare I say future “perfect” in the olam ha’ba would be permanetly altered and perhaps unfixable. Skip therefore, with all of his fears, failings, philosophies, psychologies, pain, addictions, humanist leanings, shortcomings, ideas and ideals is right where YHWH wants and needs him to be (even if Skip doesn’t want to be there or hopes and plans to not be there much longer). I am blessed, honored and inspired to daily read of Skip’s vulnerabilities, failings and struggles and, of course, his victories, passions and insights. It is his reality and in it I catch glimpses of my reality and His reality. Skip’s life, your life and ours is a journey that must be taken one step at a time and even if we know the end destination, we cannot take shortcuts; so to offer criticism, critique or comments (or tips, tricks and tactics ) to help others change…which is really designed to improve their image in our estimation, (under the guise of spirituality) is both simplistic and shortsighted. Perhaps Greek in origin and philosophy, but I say “live and let live”… and let God live in us and do for us and be through us as He sees fit.

Jerry and Lisa

We are not offended, though we are sorry you took our comments as personally critical of Skip, himself. We appreciate you speaking the truth as you see it, even if disagreeing or disapproving about our comments and/or our character. It’s much preferred over the all-too-common and disgusting flattery we so often hear. That’s for sure! And we suppose it is especially honorable that you come to the defense of others.

We, too, are blessed by and respect Skip and his writings. We find them challenging, confirming, and inspiring. We, ourselves, have intended to share concepts, not criticisms. However, whether or not they are critical, confrontive, or contrary, they are only intended to be constructive in the cause of Messiah and Him having a bride prepared for Himself, without spot or blemish. It’s just that we are jealous for truth, righteousness, and the unrivaled esteem of YHWH and the Messiah of His people, more than we are jealous for the esteem of man, whether for ourselves or others, though we pray all will come to know His love and be encouraged in the truth of His mercy and favor, all for the preeminence of His name’s sake.

We didn’t know, “Prayer and personal example are the only acceptable currencies in this venue.” And we would have thought Skip would be the one to decide what the acceptable currencies are in this venue and would not have thought he would have limited it to only that. We agree, however, they too are essential currencies for us all. We also thought that this community was mature and strong enough for solid food and not only milk. Also, our understanding of the Hebraic or “Jewish” way of life is that hearty disagreement is encouraged. “Iron sharpens iron.” But certainly, if we have over-estimated that, we can, by all means, be sure to be even more encouraging and gentle. Shalom to you and all.

Michael Stanley

Jerry and Lisa, Thanks for the pressed down, over flowing measure of graciousness in your reply. When you said “We didn’t know, ‘Prayer and personal example are the only acceptable currencies in this venue.’ ” I didn’t intend the venue to mean the earthly venue of Skip’s intellectual property. I meant the currency in the heavenly venue. I wasn’t clear enough, sorry. But from that you rightly deduced that:
“And we would have thought Skip would be the one to decide what the acceptable currencies are in this venue and would not have thought he would have limited it to only that.” I had to laugh because of the misunderstanding I engendered. Being fairly new to the site I understand your puzzlement. I assure you that from what I have seen here in my 6 years there are many (written) currencies represented and traded here: including the ancient half (truth) shekels, the UK Sterling (examples), the Jersey pound (you), the West African franc(ness), the North Korean (I) Won, the Romanian Leu (in lieu of) and of course the newest trend in currencies the “Crypto”currency… and counterfeits not a few. But you are right when you stated that I am not the one who determines what is acceptable in currency exchange, behaviors, content or anything else…in either place…or any place, including my home. Finally you stated “We also thought that this community was mature and strong enough for solid food and not only milk”. It is, it really is. I am sorry I gave you a poor impression of the whole. As my wife often reminds me: I need to keep my mouth shut (but what kind of cathartic therapy would that be?). Shabbat Shalom my new friends.

Jerry and Lisa

Thank you, too. Guess we all would all do well to remember what happens when we ASSUME (make an ASS[of]U[and]ME). Best to ASK FIRST, CONCLUDE LATER – an essential for good listening and communication.

So, about “currencies” – Sorry, but now you also have the South African Rand blended with the New York Dollar (“You just done got ‘rand over’ by someone ‘telling it like it is’ such that it makes you ‘groan an (d)holler'”).

By the way, we’ve been around here for a few years, ourselves, also. Sometimes as Jerry. Sometimes as Lisa. Now as Jerry and Lisa, in part, to try to establish better boundaries and eliminate possibilities of INORDINATE AFFECTIONS IN CROSS GENDER RELATIONSHIPS, for ourselves and for other contributing readers here.

For your interest and understanding, and that of anyone else here, we offer our explanation (and we believe this is still in keeping with Today’s Word – “A Divided Life”, as relates to vulnerabilities, connection with others, and “addictions”):

We believe such cross gender affections are unnecessary and inappropriate for and with people who are married and are called to be devoted to YHWH, the Messiah, His kingdom, and one another. We have witnessed such boundary violations even in blogs of this nature, via flattery or at least unnecessary words of personal affirmation, one of the main five love languages in romantic relationships which when used can stir up soulish affections (as well as the yetzer ha’ra) within anyone. We see in scripture that Messiah did relate to females (Mary and Martha, the woman at the well, Mary Magdalene, etc.), but…..He was likely always in a group setting and His interactions were witnessed by others…..therefore we have written accounts of those interactions.

It’s the same in person. We don’t have such interactions with those of the opposite gender. No private, personal communications, verbal or body language, and not even any overly friendly glances or interactions with those of the opposite gender even in the presence of others, i.e. compliments, touching, charming or subtle seducing, even intellectual exchanges or biblical discussion, if we sense there is any attraction or inordinate attention going on by the other person. We are polite, professional, and proper, but not personal. And just calling each other “brother” or “sister” doesn’t necessarily guard us from all this, nor is it just a matter of guarding our own hearts, because it’s also incumbent upon each of us to truly be our “brother’s (or sister’s) keeper” by not having “emotional incest”.

So, we (separately) do not reply to comments of contributors here who are of the opposite gender, at least not without discussing it and agreeing with each other first before replying. Nothing hidden. Therefore we don’t identify which one of us is replying and, generally, one of us does the writing, but both of us discuss what we want to say here.

SHABBAT SHALOM TO YOU AND YOUR HOME!

Michael Stanley

Jerry and Lisa, Just as you like to preface your (passive- aggressive) comments to Skip with this disclaimer allow me to do so as well: “please take this as a somewhat light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek ribbing with love.”
Your view and practice of gender isolationism and what you term “INORDINATE AFFECTIONS IN CROSS GENDER RELATIONSHIPS” are… IMHO extreme and IYeshua’sHO unscriptural. I, for one, am glad you are not the moderators of this blog. I would have been banned long ago and perhaps had my hands chopped off for being found guilty on, at minimum, 632 counts of “flattery or at least unnecessary words of personal affirmation” in the 1st degree and 478 violations of premeditated “cross gender affection” in the 2nd degee. I plead no contest to the charge of “emotional incest” whose penalty would no doubt be death by stoning (care to cast the first stone?). However, I can now better understand some of your other opinions, views and comments in light of these “high” standards. I am not opposed to you having your personal standards, but please don’t misrepresent Messiah in justifying your ‘cult’ rules. You said “He was likely always in a group setting and His interactions were witnessed by others”…..and you used as a proof text, of all people, the woman at the well- the exemplar of… well, the woman alone at the well! He was alone with her as told by the disciples who were astounded upon their return to the scene: “They were marveling that he was talking with a woman”. While a man in the ancient Jewish world did not normally talk with a woman in public or ask her of a drink, especially a Samaritan and a 5-time divorcee (…wait, before you say “Told Ya”) it shows that we are not looking at a ‘normal’ Jewish man; which is precisely the point. Everywhere we look we see Yeshua breaking the chains of social boundaries and convention, most notably between the sexes, but also between the poor and rich, the ordinary and ordained, the Jew and Gentile. The incident that sent the Pharisees (and I suspect you) into a tizzy was when Mary of Bethany unabashedily anointed Yeshua with costly perfume in front of a crowd of mostly men! In fact, Yeshua defended her actions as being both selfless and spiritual, not prohibited or suspect. In another similar account, involving yet another woman who clearly had “boundry issues,” Yeshua is a guest in the home of Simon the Pharisee. During the meal this woman known as “a sinner” enters the room and anoints Yeshua’s feet with her tears and wipes them off with her hair. Yeshua forgave her ALL her sins (which, He says were many, but not for this act of “cross gender affection,” because it was NOT a sin). We see The Master being touched (OMG!) by the woman with the issue of blood; he spoke “words of comfort” to her and healed her infirmity. At one time we see Yeshua going into the room of Peter’s mother who had a fever and (gasp) “touching her hand and healing her”;  Again, “He took the damsel by the hand, (God forbid…and you too?) and said unto her, Talitha cumi”; finally recall the Syrophoenician woman to whom Yeshua not only spoke, but delivered her daughter from a demon (no doubt to the shock of the disciples and yourselves?). These are just a few of the many examples for a new plan of social interaction and gender equality initiated and modeled by Yeshua. He clearly tore down the gender barriers which you asking us to help you re-
rebuild. Not only am I am not willing, but I am not guilty, nor will I be shamed in submission. Yes, there are standards of conduct and comportment, dress and speech, but let us not make laws and rules where none are needed for those of us who now have the law of live and love written upon our hearts. If I cannot encourage and edify a friend whom I know is in need of a kind word or tell a brother or sister that I love them or miss their presence or long to see them again then you need to cut out many of the Apostle Paul’s salutations in the New Testament and remove the language of the Shumalite woman longing for her lover and visa versa in the Song of Solomon. We are His bride together, not individually and we can, no, must, encourage, edify, honor each other not only in words of love, but deeds as well. “They shall know you BY your love”…not by your rules against
“INORDINATE AFFECTIONS IN CROSS GENDER RELATIONSHIPS”. Come on man. This is not a high school virtual dating site that needs to be censored, castigated or castrated.
I trust you were able to take my comments “as a somewhat light-hearted, tongue-in-cheek ribbing with love”. Oh, one more loving (prime) rib: How is it that you dare make veiled insinuations toward Skip, questioning his loyalties, accusing him of being a “Jewish wolf”. Who is the wolf in sheep’s clothing now?
…tongue-in-cheek, of course. Michael AND Arnella

Laurita Hayes

Mich-ella (bro/sis?), I am rather sure you can appreciate that most of us are folks only our mothers could love, even though some of the rest of us also have spouses blinded by, well we are not sure; at least those of us lucky enough to have landed such a sight-impaired person. Unfortunately, I think blatant blemishes so mar so many of the rest of us as to render us rather to extremely ‘safe’ when it comes to the hormone insanity. There are a very few ravishing exceptions, but the rest of us mortals rarely see those mythical creatures, I think.

My observation of the planet is that all of us need more love, not less, and that most of us need to give more love (direct reach-out-and-touch), not less. I personally have gotten to the point that (in order to not miss obeying the instructions to love in some way) I decided that I was going to love them all and let God sort them out. So far (rather disappointingly) I haven’t been jumped by any mythical ravishers. I do have a wonderful assortment of beautiful folks I am not ashamed to call my friends. Yes, some of them I have actually touched. Some of them have even touched me. (You are included in that, you know.) I felt the love of God. Imagine that. Halleluah!

Jerry and Lisa

Michael, our comments are NO REPUDIATION OF THE WORTH OF WOMEN! In fact, it is in respect for women and rightly protecting their dignity that we honor and promote such cross gender boundaries and appeal that people check their hearts. If it doesn’t apply to YOU, great! If you’re not seeking the attention of women other than your wife, great! But you must know, if you have a reasonable degree of knowledge and discernment, there is widespread emotional and sexual adultery going on and it is equally among those who call themselves by His name, and even among those who call themselves “pastor”. It IS shameful! And where does it start, if not in the heart and in “innocent” social relations? We do relate with others across gender lines. Just with very thoughtful discretion, guarding our own hearts and protecting the hearts of those with whom we relate.

And our questions and remarks to Skip are “fair”. We DID NOT ACCUSE SKIP OF BEING “A WOLF”! We asked him questions to disclose what he believes is the difference between being “Hebrew” and “Jewish” as we seek to heed Messiah’s warning to be watchful of “wolves in sheep’s clothing”, even as Skip, himself, suggested us, his readers, may be “Christian wolves in Hebrew clothing”.

Again, Michael, if our comments don’t apply to you, GREAT! You’re above reproach and you have no need to feel guilty or ashamed of either flattery or inordinate affections toward women. If they do, fear YHWH, do teshuvah, and bear fruit in keeping with it.

Lastly, we have no desire to moderate any blog or congregation or otherwise. We can be, have been, and daily are pastoral. We just do not want to quench the spirit of prophecy out of the fear of man. We are intending to love YHWH and others, even you. Is that what you are doing in your comments to us?

You do know, right, that the Ruach was sent to convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and the Scriptures are profitable for reproof, correction, and training in righteousness? Must be you just don’t bear witness to what we think is the truth concerning that which is righteous. Let Elohim be the judge of that. Shalom to you, Michael.

Jerry and Lisa

Hey Michael. Very sorry for the obviously excessive, undesirable provocations that have caused such grief. As it has been said, probably even here on T.W., “Community is messy business”, right? It takes, at least, vulnerability to make it happen, like sharing values and biblical convictions that are not necessarily widely agreed to by others or asking challenging questions that can stir things up. It’s evident that it’s easy to consider someone a “friend” one day and for them be appreciated for “the value and perspective they bring” one day, and then to quickly become such a source of personal offense the next day. We are learning that people have a variety of different reasons for coming to this site. Obviously, some want it to be a rather intimate fellowship kind of community. Others want it to be a place to just exchange ideas. Others want to be a place to be challenged and to challenge others to grow and change. Others, still, just want to read what others write. And then there are those who want some combo of all those things. We understand some of what you desire and respect that. We are learning what the reasons are for us to come here, how to work that out, and will be making the necessary adjustments that we hope will be best for all. Shalom.

Michael Stanley

Jerry and Lisa, thank you for your measured response. I agree with you that people do come here for differing reasons. I myself, am a combo-man, the full works, (hold the bacon). Accept my apologies as well for taking things nuclear. I do hope you stay and work out your purpose and place in this community. As Laurita says: “we don’t bite”….other than my words sometimes. Shalom.

Jerry and Lisa

Apology accepted. So much for cathartic therapy, huh? […Is that your wife I hear in the background? ; ) ]

Oh, and by the way, don’t think we served any bacon, here. If it was, it would only have been turkey, at worst. No need to throw a fuss. It might be a bit tough to chew on, but it’s still clean, edible, and good for you, if you let it digest a little and don’t just throw it back up.

Shalom to you, Michael.

Judi Baldwin

Yikes…Jerry and Lisa. As Shakespeare once said…”Me thinks thou dost protest too much.”

Jerry and Lisa

So now Shakespeare is a reliable standard of righteousness? Now THAT deserves a “Yikes!”.

Laurita Hayes

Shakespeare was an observer.

Jerry and Lisa

As are we all. And he was a commentator on what he observed. As are we here. It just seems the question here is whether the things we are commenting on are of sound biblical judgement as to what is righteous. And another good question seems to be, toward what end are we being provoked here……to love and good deeds or the works of the flesh?

Laurita Hayes

Well, we can’t leave our flesh behind; but it does need to be in subjection to love. Skip teaches that the yetzer ha’ra (what I understand to be natural flesh) is not evil; it is just out of order.
It’s really hard to love without it.

Is “protesting too much” righteous or not? Only the protester(s) would know that, ultimately, but if they protest publicly, the public is going to have to conclude something if there is no accompanying context..

Honestly, Jer-lisa, I don’t think we are going bite! We really are gentle, mainly harmless, and quite friendly. It just feels rude to be excluded from your little coterie. Jerry, I am not attracted to you, but I am finding it a little awkward to figure out how to love you. I feel untrusted. Lisa does not seem very available, either, although I would like to be friends. You guys are doing this second-person stuff and I feel invisible at the same rate you are invisible. It’s like a non-encounter. Please do something to fix it!

Jerry and Lisa

Sorry for the length but it seems important to try to straighten out a few things here. AND it will likely be the last of what we have to share about this, so feel free to have the “last word”.

We want to speak about “love”, “Jesus”, and “community”….

Sorry about these troubles and disappointments. Just to be clear, though, we, ourselves, like others here, are not primarily coming here for intimate biblical fellowship, at least maybe the way some people think of it, nor for the purpose of trying to be “loved”.

We’re not seeking to be intimately transparent with an unknown (or semi-real/authentic) online “community”, whether people here “bite” or not (we’re not afraid of that, though some here DO “bite”…..and we obviously “bite” a little ourselves, also – only may none of us “devour” each other – Gal.5:15).

Apparently you either don’t quite understand or respect our convictions and reasons for “doing this 2nd person stuff”, as a couple vs as individuals. Your manner of invitation here may not be the best way to get someone into your community, though it may work well to encourage people to stay out. If we do become more intimately transparent, it will not be on someone else’s terms and time table or to meet the emotional needs of others or to satisfy their concept of what community is, regardless of whether or not we are considered as being “rude” in being this way. And we’re not seeking a mutual admiration society, either.

Actually, we have witnessed even Skip, in person, declining to answer intrusive questions by others, of a personal, private nature, saying, “You do not know me that well”, even while he was promoting the concepts of building community by being connected with others through intimate vulnerability, and it was not he whom we thought of as being rude. Would you? And in that example, if we were that person publicly asking for such intimate self-disclosure, the problem of knowing how to “love” Skip in having boundaries would be ours to solve and not Skip’s, wouldn’t you say? Being biblically intimate and being enmeshed are two very different concepts. One is voluntary and the other one involves coercion and manipulation, whether by charm, seduction, or intimidation, even name-calling or false-guilt inducing.

Also, we find that the way many people seem to define “love”, including what is “rude”, to be at least somewhat, and sometimes much more than a little, contrary to how Scripture portrays Messiah’s love as seen in His replies to people. This is a difficult paradigm change, we understand. We know He is compassionate, patient, gentle, and kind, but all of these aspects of love, how we are to define these qualities, are to be based upon how Messiah displayed them. And when we really, truthfully re-evaluated all this, putting all our preconceptions on the table, we’ve found that we had allowed ourselves to be induced by how most of Christianity has interpreted and defined “Jesus” and “love” and “community”, and it has been an all-too-fluffy, puppy dog kind of love.

We see Messiah’s love is much more impacted by and infused with the TRUTH as He knows it and not by how He’s going to make someone feel based on how they are going to take things, and, therefore, it is often much more cutting and divisive, like a double-edged sword [Matt. 10:34-39]. And we think that’s why so many people haven’t matured much in their righteousness and continue to display the same distressing and dysfunctional fleshly emotional, behavioral, and interpersonal patterns in their lives, including addictions and co-dependencies. We really like, appreciate, and prefer this “kindness AND severity of God” in the nature of His love, even when displayed by others toward us, as long as it is infused with the TRUTH and is not just some carnal opinions, personal agendas, and dysfunctional emotionalistic reactions.

We would like to challenge readers here to boldly re-evaluate what He is REALLY like in these regards and to consider de-Christianizing their understanding of “love” more in favor of the TRUTH. Many of us have become such overly soft and delicate creatures when it comes to the reproof, correction, and training in righteousness for which the Scriptures are profitable, and when it comes to conviction of sin, righteousness, and judgment for which the Ruach HaKodesh is given.

We know that because of the things we have to share that others will not like us. That’s ok with us. It’s not a personality contest. We only pray that others will consider what we have to share and that the Ruach HaKodesh will reveal what He wants others to know. That’s how we approach hearing what others have to say. It’s a hungering and searching for the TRUTH.

Please consider even this one seemingly harsh, impolite, even rude statement of Messiah’s. It is a reflection of the very different kind of nature He can have as compared to what we have bought into as portrayed to us through Christianity.

“…..O faithless and twisted generation! How long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you?'” [Mat_17:17]

Wow! That’s Messiah talking!

Now there’s an example of the NOT so “nice Jesus” we’re coming to better know. And THIS is the “Jesus” we are coming to “accept in OUR hearts” so that we may be “saved”. This is YESHUA, the Messiah. Eat His flesh and drink His blood.

So Yeshua said to them, “Amen, amen I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. [Joh 6:53]

Shalom.

Laurita Hayes

Thank you for engaging with me, both of you, Jerry, and Lisa, and I respect your boundaries, too. Things can seem off-putting and actually be the opposite. I know I can be that way, or take things that way, too. I apologize if I misconstrued in any way, and hope sincerely that I was!

It is hard to walk out of the “enmeshed” stuff that masquerades as love, you hit that nail right on its head. Thank you for that.

Eventually, if we learn this right, we can expect to be divided even in our own families, as we are promised, and as I realize many of the early believers were, because there was a price to pay, socially, to be one. I believe that there will be again, here, too.

May we all be found on the right side of that dividing line – TOGETHER – and singing in tune, too!

I am still happy you are here. May we meet in a friendly way someday.

Love in Yeshua,
Laurita

Judi Baldwin

This is so true Skip. God clearly designed us to be in community. Iron sharpening iron…giving, getting and growing. It’s a beautiful plan. Too bad we humans have so thoroughly messed it up but thankfully, His answers are there…if we just look, listen and learn.
I’m swamped right now, but I’ll listen to to the two links you provided in the next few days. Thanks.

George Kraemer

A Divided Life, a divided country, reunited? Someday, one day. A mere one hundred years ago today British General Allenby liberated Jerusalem from “400 years of blighting occupation amid the acclamations of the inhabitants” W.S.Churchill.

How much longer before the real liberation day? It seems to be approaching us like a freight train with many standing frozen in the middle of the tracks waiting for the arrival. Better move quickly!

Judi Baldwin

Thumbs up for both Brene Brown and John Hart Ted Talks.

Judi Baldwin

Johaan Hari (can’t control that auto correct)