Does It Really Matter?
“Have I sinned? What have I done to You, O watcher of men? Why have You set me as Your target, so that I am a burden to myself? Job 7:20 NASB
Done to You– In the grand scheme of things, in the cosmic order, do you think that your little sins really make any difference? You are nothing more than a speck, smaller than that, much smaller, in the 14 billion light year wide known universe. Less than insignificant. Almost nothing! Are God’s plans altered or destroyed because you told a lie in the eighth grade? Did God lose control of the universe because you didn’t report all your income to the IRS? Really! Who really cares! That’s Job’s question. “If You, God, are so powerful, so majestic, so eternally decisive, what real difference does some indiscretion of mine make to You? Does any of my sin impact You? How could it?
But if You are so powerful, so magnificent, so purposeful, then why, oh why, have you made me the target of Your punishment? My sins are almost nothing in the biggest picture of the history of the creation. Why, then, do You make my life so miserable so that I can barely stand myself? Nothing I do can really injure Your character or Your purposes. Why pay attention to the small details of my otherwise insignificant life?
The answer is a bit surprising. The actual truth is that, as far as God is concerned, He doesn’t care. That is to say, what we do doesn’t really affect who He is. God is God no matter how corrupt, spoiled or destructive we are. Our sins mean nothing to His status as God.
But that isn’t the end of the story. God pays attention to our smallest sins because those tiny acts of disobedience injure us, and that means we are not fulfilling the intended purpose He has in mind when He created us. God is concerned because sin disconnects us from Him, and connection with Him is the reason we exist. No, it doesn’t matter what we do when it comes to God being God, but yes, it matters a great deal when it comes to God’s purpose being fulfilled. So His reminders to us, the consequences of our mistaken acts, are signals that we are veering off track, that we have missed the true intention of our existence. God sets us as a target, not because He is ontologically affected by our errors, but because His reputation in creation is affected. He is dishonored in the disgrace of His only image bearer—Mankind. When we injure ourselves by committing sins, we also shame the One who created us. We were supposed to display His glory, to reflect His passion and compassion, to manifest His purposes. When we don’t do that, our injury becomes a snub to His glory. And that matters!
Job’s question is one of magnitude. On the big scale, our sins seem petty. But the big scale isn’t the only scale of God’s universe. The devil is in the details, in more ways than one.
Topical Index: ‘ep’al lak, done to You, sin, reputation, injury, Job 7:20
Good commentary. Skip period when my brother-in-law came to know the Lord. One by one our entire family came into the kingdom. Except for one aunt and uncle. The first Bible study we had, was the book of Job. He gave some of these things comments that you did. He explained it like this. You are on a moving sidewalk going in the wrong direction. Every step you are off track. You go backwards. Stay on track and continue to be right where you need to be, not too far ahead, not too far behind. Stay in step with God’s. Spirit.
Shalom for now. Be praying for us we have a baptism this weekend. Thank you very much.
Pride really does know no shame. Pride – the greatest of all sin – is the pettiest of all sin, too, I am convinced, because pride can stoop lower than all other sin. I think we use pride to cover the shame that would have kept us out of those holes otherwise: we use it in an attempt to transmute shame into something tolerable – something we don’t then have to deal with. We employ pride, then, to keep us from the motivation (which is the pain of that shame) to change.
Someone who still can blush – who still knows shame – is someone who is still subscribing to a larger standard, but pride will admit no standard beyond the self. Shame hurts for a reason: we are supposed to use that hurt as a motivation to change our choices in that place. We employ pride to avoid being damaged by shame. Pride sets us up, therefore, for a larger fall; a bigger hurt from a more damaging source of motivation to change our course.
I have often wondered if, BECAUSE the ancient world thought that disaster was punishment for sin – as though somehow we had any capacity at all to PAY for sin, even though all the sacrifices of innocent animals pointed to the fact that only INNOCENCE can pay for sin(!) – that they also suffered from the notion that if you enjoyed blessings, you had somehow EARNED them, too. It is a natural corollary. Job’s complaints, to me, are an indicator that he, too, subscribed to the notion that YHVH was punishing him for sin, when the curses were clearly designed for correction instead.
Job was off course if he in any way thought his blessings were a RESULT – a reward – of righteousness, but if he did think that way he would have concluded that the absence of disaster indicated he was ‘good enough’ already; that he didn’t need to improve on anything. But that notion is built on pride: the thought that we are our own source – that we have control in some small way – of our own destiny. I think this is why we relax (yep, me too!) when things seem to be going well; not because we have faith that God is in control but because we think we are already ‘there’; already ‘good enough’.
I have wondered all that because it was Job’s PRIDE that got such a jolt when YHVH personally showed up; therefore it had to have been pride itself – the pride that had concluded that good fortune was a result of righteousness instead of being a gift of grace that enabled him to BE righteous – that needed to be corrected. Job was not being punished for pride, however; instead, he was being motivated to repent for it. And, he did.
Excellent, insightful words, Skip! Very clarifying. Thank you. To me, it is very apparent to your time spent in contemplation and study, listening to the Holy Spirit. Knowing the mind of God. So much damage has been done by the church in regards to sin and sin management, if there is such thing. We have been programmed so much that our biggest aim is to be sinless. And for what purpose? For the glory of God or the glory of man? Which brings us to what Laurita is saying about pride. We don’t want to follow God and be obedient to him, we want to be Him. Isn’t that what got Lucifer kicked out of heaven? Isn’t that where we so easily go off track? We want something more complicated and self reinforcing then just to walk in fellowship with God. I love Skip’s words that sound very parental to me . The concern of the parent, not that their child doesn’t bring them glory, but rather that by following their own way they can never experience the true fullness of God. What it means to be a child of God. My selfwill and The Spirit come into conflict. My flesh warring against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. The two are contrary! The flesh has a death sentence. Really, when you think about it, so much of the time when we have conflicts with others, isn’t it centered so often around pride and our need to be dominant or right? I love what was said in regards to, when I do well, I pat myself on the back, and say” good going,you!” And when I do poorly, which is quite regularly, I try to fix myself for God !
Why is it, do you think, that God so often allows us to run into walls that seem so fixed and permanent within ourselves ?
For those who have not read the book by Skip and Laurita, “31 Days of Transformation”, I would highly recommend it. Very impactful, thought provoking and instructional. Their vulnerability provides a space where we can all look at our “stuff” ( our walls !) and move on in God. Sometimes our walls speak to us of an end, but maybe they’re not, maybe they are just doors disguised as walls! Perspectives, my friends. Job could have laid down and died,but, he didn’t !
What about God’s heart?
Are you saying God doesn’t have the heart to care for our sins?
That He is more concerned for His own reputation?
As early as Genesis we see God’s heart and motivation.
“The Lord was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart
was filled with pain.” Gen 6:6
Skip, you lost me on this one.
OK, let me try to clarify. God isn’t less than God because we sin. That is to say, His status as God is not diminished by my disobedience. Job’s point is that if this is true, why should sin bother Him? And the reason it does is 1) because He cares about His creation and 2) because sin tarnishes His reputation as Creator. So, yes, He does care, as you pointed out. But WHY He cares is the question today.
WHY? I was taught since my youth not to ‘go there’. I now think differently. Typical answers to the ‘why’, re: God’s reasons, are (1)He is God and you are not, (2) Who knows the mind of God?, (3) Because He loves us… then there is door #4, God has a plan to make us into a ‘new race’ and Yeshua is the first born Son of that new race. Faithful and true, righteous and pure… in God’s image. The realm, for now is planet earth. Then God will make a new earth or possible new realm for those who get through the narrow gate. We see bits and pieces of this narrative in scripture. The most telling is in Peter… “a royal priesthood” and if one is inclined to reach beyond the controlled books of the bible, there’s a plethora of more bits and pieces. Remember.. God knew us from before the foundation. What foundation? Earth? Some other realm? And then we can ask once more…. WHY?
Thank you, Lucille! I am a “WHY” person! In my own mind, I continue to seek answers to why things are ‘out of order’ and do not work according to the design. Fascinating questions abound. 🙂
I’m still a little in left field. Are you saying God is just as concerned
for the restoration of man’s hearts as He is for the restoration of
His reputation? Help me understand how the Almighty Creator of Everything
has even a moment’s pause about His reputation. Or are you meaning the
subjective perceptions of Himself among men?
It’s not the “restoration” of His reputation. It’s the establishment of it among the nations.
So true Skip…God’s status is not diminished one iota (to use a Greek word,) by our sin… BUT… His status in the eyes of others might be. And that, I believe, is what concerns Him. He expects His children to bring honor to his name and to serve Him with obedience, gratitude and praise. This keeps us connected, and, as you said, “connection with Him is the reason we exist.” Amen!!
I think the story of David and Goliath is one of the reasons David was given the name, “a man after God’s heart.” David’s primary reason and concern for fighting Goliath was because the Philistines were insulting the God of the Bible. David was defending God’s reputation and God was pleased. For all the things David did that were wrong…he did a lot of things that were right.
You said it better than I could
As I was reading Deuteronomy 26, I noticed the term “God of my fathers” as used in the proclamation of the first fruits. What we perceive when we read that term may vary according to what our understanding of God is but, it’s worth noting that in the Hebrew it’s elohi. Eloh (god) with a “yod” attached. It can be read as “my” God, but it has the same construction as one who belongs to a tribe or people. If you are of Gad, you are a Gad-ite (a yod at the end). Without putting aside the “otherness” or greatness of our God, when He speaks to His people here as the God of their fathers, He speaks as one who belongs to the tribe, not as one far removed. But, that’s true connection, because the sin of one doesn’t just affect the one, but rather the whole of the people. What a Gracious God we serve.
Our sin can affect His reputation, but only because others may choose to think wrongly of Him because of our sin. However, they too bear responsibility for that tarnishing of His reputation, because of their wrongful assigning of responsibility to God for our sins.
I do NOT agree, however, that our sin SHAMES God, because that means He would experience humiliation because of us and He doesn’t take that on Himself, and ultimately our snubbing His glory does not snub His glory. His glory is from everlasting to everlasting. It does and will prevail!
Our sin may impact how others choose to think and feel about God, but it doesn’t impact God in how He thinks and feels about Himself. He’s quite secure in the truth of who He is.
He is, however, greatly concerned with how our sin negatively impact ourselves and others, and our relationship with Him and others, out of concern for our own good and the good of others. And because of that, our sin grieves God.
In the end, He knows His reputation and purposes are secure and will not be tarnished nor thwarted. It is our welfare and that of others that is His ultimate concern, and that is why His purposes and reputation will be accomplished and esteemed!
Love never fails! And God is love!
When I was a child I would marvel at my dad. He could dance with such grace and perfect harmony and I use to describe it like he was dancing on glass. When I asked him to teach me, he would say just follow my lead.when I would get frustrated,angry,sad that I could not get it or understand it he would give no explanation but neither would he yell at my outbursts to have him explain it to me. His only words were follow my lead. When I got really good I had a
tendency to try to lead and of course it never worked. Dad would stop say follow my lead and it was beautiful. Job understood at the end he not only heard but his eyes we opened about God.Just like I heard my Dad say “follow my lead “with no explanation ,but when I did follow his lead I truly saw how beautiful that dance could be. Oh my how sweet the dance of his redemptive plan just follow his plan and dance with Yeshua. I agree we should not down grade sin but neither should we upgrade it we will not enjoy the dance.
Hello Brother Skip you used these following words to help us understand the minuteness of man. I fully agree and you have worded it as following, but could i also be true in saying it like I have shared it in the latter part of this highlight? “You are nothing more than a speck, smaller than that, much smaller, in the 14 billion light year wide known universe. Less than insignificant. Almost nothing!” I submit this change to your sharing. It is just so true that our earth is flat and of course we have been taught the lies from NASA and those lies have been past down to us as scientific truth, but is truthfully not so!! We can’t learn our cosmology from man and his ways, but truly now while it is still called today, scripture does support only a Flat Earth model. I therefore am submitting, and only if you correctly understand my request to use this change of those few sentences to say it this way::- “We are but man. And we are living on a flat earth enclosed by Yahuwah’s awesome firmament.” As I said I submit this change because I too am a believer in Yahuwah and His beloved Son Yahushua our Master and that I appreciates your daily word shared from the time I heard of you, very very much. Shalom
Dear Hendry,
So nice to hear your voice here again. I am always glad to have you provide exegetical analysis of the text. However, I will respectfully pass on the “Flat Earth” comment (I simply don’t need even more controversy, as my dear friend in South Africa, Nicol, will attest). NASA may lie to us, but I don’t think that is the point of the text or of the teaching. You got it right at the beginning, for sure. Job points out how infinitesimal we are (regardless of the scale) in comparison to YHVH, and that raises the question, “Who is man that you should pay attention to him?”
Thanks for the response. After I shared. I felt unhappy that I made a thoughtless mistake and I would like to correct the error and the error was I used NASA that was wrong! Period. Because even if it is true. It cannot be used as a weapon better than the Scriptures! Why? What come before NASA? And that is what Scripture testifies too. And therefore my correction is to point to the Scriptures. Then there is also no controversy for His child. We know the LAST CALL ( the great Controversy) and Satan and all those he deceived will have to bow their knees!
It truly is great to be in touch with you. Although it is so far. Meaning (Taiwan) Shalom
August 30, 2018. Does it Really Matter?
I appreciated your comments about the flat earth! That’s what used to be taught. Now people look at a photoshopped image of a globe thinking that it’s what we are on. When I started reading about it, it surely made sense to me and matched the image in my mind of what it will be like way in the future at the end end. Lines up scripturally. It should not cause controversy. We should question everything all the time. I wonder how many times we are told not to be deceived! Don’t let your fixed ideas get in the way of learning! Does it really matter? I would say YES.
I was disappointed with Skip’s response but I don’t know what controversy he is dealing with that would cause him not to want to know what the truth is on this subject. Everything in the Bible is what God wants us to know and thus it is important. Lies hurt. All lies that are meant to hurt us or to hurt our faith or our relationships need to be addressed. Some affect us more it seems but everything does matter. The truth is important!
Thanks Jeanette for sharing your understanding. I do know that I have highlighted the situation with Skip. It is as he put it a controversy. And therefore those that are not sure have their space to give themselves to do the scriptural research by themselves. We know from scripture:- The sighting of Father & Son when the firmament recedes like I roll. Rev 6: 14-17 “ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it rolled together: ……. that is going to happen very soon. So Yahuwah is so wonderful that he will make it very clear. Scripture is the plump line and that’s what I I enjoy from Skip! He has not asked for help so he does know what to do. And I am sure the best is yet to come! Shalom
NASA lies to the American people, the Russian space agency lies to the Russian people, the Chinese space agency lies to the Chinese people, the Indian space agency lies to the Indian people, the South Korean space agency lies to it’s people, et al. Yes, there is a grand conspiracy of magnanimous proportions intending to deceive the entire world about the SHAPE of the earth. They are all colluding to keep a flat Earth a secret. Why? For those of you who didn’t take physics or calculus in high school, please don’t comment.
The “shape” of the earth, kinda reminds me of the vegetales episode of Noe and the big exit, the theme song was by the boys in the sink and was entitled, it’s a mess down here in Egypt. Whatever the “shape” of the earth is, it’s been continuing on for a number of years without a problem. Unless shape has to do with fitness instead of form. In that case, I’d say that the “earth” probably is a sphere as it’s easily moveable, where as a splayed flat with foundations at the corners is not. I haven’t ever seen the earth from a distance, and neither have you. Frankly, I’m not sure anyone has but that’s not the issue. The issue is if we believe that the earth (and all that pertains to it) is able to be rolled on its side and a new structure applied that will “work”. God says no, and unfortunately, we’ve come to the point that He is proving it. I can “build” a house however I want to, whether it stands in adversity is according to laws outside of myself.
Btw, I agreed with your comment because there were 2 disagreements without comment
Whether flat or not, I know the earth (eretz) is the LORD’s (YHVH)…and all that fills it. Who is this King of glory? YHVH of Hosts (tzebaot)…He is the King of Glory!
Rich dialogue. I wish to suggest we consider the heart of God grieves because of our sin . He is wounded by our sins, because it isolates us from himself. Yes it harms us as well but the real issue in my my mind is neither the reputation of God or our diminishIing ourself through disfunction but the damage done to our relationship with our creator.
Mark, I think so too. When He made us in His image, we were not dolls on a shelf. His very Personhood – which is the essence of love – is unity: echad. Therefore our identity, which is His image, must be unity with Him; and, through Him, with all else. That image (unity) is marred, like you pointed out, BY our disunity with the Creator (and therefore, by extension, with all else). We share a reputation now with Him, by some unfathomable mystery wherein the Creator bound our existence and identity with His. When we degrade ourselves, we degrade Him too. I cannot understand it! (And if somebody doesn’t think that the Cross is a degradation, I have a bridge in a midwestern state they need to call me about.)
And I have an ocean front lot in Arizona that I’ll sell real cheap…
Good point Laurita… end game is unity (John 17). The disconnect? That’s what is being worked out with “fear and trembling”. I often refer to Isaiah 11 (7 spirits of God) as I process where I’m stuck… trying not to live in ‘head knowledge’ as I tend to do. Getting to God’s counsel then onward to understanding is my ‘tough’ spot. “Be still and know I am God” Psalm 46:10 keeps me from giving up and teaches me to endure. Shalom.
Great testimony for me, Lucille! You are a fun addition to this round table, by the way.
So, I’ve thought about this matter some more. And another verse to be considered, one that you, Skip, alluded to in another reply above to the “flat earth” comment where you said, “Who is man that you should pay attention to him.”
The verse actually says, “What is man, that You should make him great, that You should set Your heart on him, that You should visit him every morning, examining him every moment?” [Job 7:17-18] Here, the emphasis seems to be that Job is saying God actually DOES think man, individually and collectively, IS that significant to Him, for Him to pay attention to him, to set His heart, His affections, His caring concern, on him, to visit him at the start of each day, AND also to test, try, and examine him. He may not be understanding why, but he does acknowledge it is evidently so. Man is that significant, by virtue of the fact that he is definitely getting a lot of attention from God.
So Job really seems to be asking, IF he had sinned, And he’s asking, if so, what had he done, though he may actually only be asking that rhetorically. Yes, he is also asking, IF he had sinned, why is he and his sin so important that God should be so severely dealing with him. And so I asked if this is even primarily about Job (or us) and SIN. Well it is, at least somewhat about sin, but that is not the only question here. It is actually also about the question, “Why does God afflict us with suffering and is it always because of sin or are there other reasons?”
Well, we know sometimes God afflicts man because of his sin, as scripture tells us, He disciplines those whom He loves and punishes every one He receives. [Heb. 12:6] But that is not always the case. His discipline sometimes can also be just a time of testing, of trial, of examination. And, in the case of Job that was partly the reason, but it was, also, in great measure more about even a greater cosmic purpose, as the Adversary had asked God to allow him to afflict Job to prove that he would not remain righteous if God’s abundant favor was removed.
So, it was not just an individual, personal matter limited to Job or the sins of a man. Yes, Job is in some sense also asking that question, “IF he had sinned against God, why does he and his sin matter so much that he should have to be dealt with so severely.” And in this case, we can see that there sometimes reasons that are more than just about some sin in our lives. Sometimes our afflictions may have much more cosmic implications.
So, maybe the more important question he and maybe we should be asking is, “If You, O GREAT AND AWESOME GOD, have not convicted me of committing any sin against you, why would you be afflicting me so severely?”
I’m NOT suggesting this so as to discourage or personally avoid such prayerful and Spirit-led self-examination. That is crucial and vital! I’m suggesting this because SOMETIMES IT ISN’T ABOUT SOME SIN IN US that we are suffering and we need to have a right understanding so as to encourage and strengthen our faith and perseverance! And sometimes it isn’t just the suffering of some injustice against us by others, though that too may be some of what is going on. Sometimes, it is about something else. And, yes, it is always about God and His reputation, but it is also about Him being able to do a greater work in our lives, for our own good, too, and not repentance from sin but simply the building of faith and character! Sometimes it is about God just revealing HIS greatness to us and in us and even through us, both in the suffering as well as after the suffering has had its perfect work in us, FOR OUR GREATER GOOD! Sometimes it is not because God is disapproving of us because of some sin, but because he considers, not only His cosmic purposes to be so significant, or just for the sake of His reputation among the nations, but also because He considers US to be so significant to HIM, individually and personally, and it is not at all about Him being against us. He is actually for us and His afflictions have a high and holy and greater purpose for us, more than just getting us to stop some little sin in our lives just because it will “snub His glory”. Sometimes He just wants to manifest His greatness to us to show us our greatness or significance to HIM! This, too, is how He glorifies Himself, by glorifying us, or esteeming us, IN HIM!
Sometimes our suffering is because He has chosen us to receive more of His glory in our lives!
Consider this related statement by Yeshua, Himself, about this matter:
“As Yeshua was passing by, He saw a man who had been blind since birth. His disciples asked Him, ‘Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he should be born blind?’ Yeshua answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned. This happened so that the works of God might be brought to light in him.” [Joh 9:1-3]
“With this in mind, we pray for you constantly, that our God may consider you worthy of the calling and fulfill with power every good desire and work of faith, so the name of our Lord Yeshua may be glorified in you, and you in Him, in keeping with the grace of our God and the Lord Yeshua the Messiah. [2Th 1:11-12]
Thanks Jerry and Lisa . Your commentary really touched me as there are times when I cry out trying to understand why I feel like I am in the washing machine or worse…… when I can’t fathom how I have dirtied my clothes even in prayer and fasting.
Mysteries…some of them will stay that way and are very hard to live with whilst staying trusting in the midst of confusion.
I know you guys are often controversial in your response approach and that does not always resonate well in the group or even with me….but the is OK. The ‘offense’ of your words doesn’t make the club ‘take notice’ board and for some may feel like a club to the head….but that is OK.
I felt that same response to the flat earth Hendry and co with the lack of resonance and also the goodness of this site to be honest about what it does not feel consistent to the pursuit of the things which we have an opportunity to change about ourselves. I don’t think anyone here reckons they can change the shape of the earth actually. But may God’s/Yeshua’s grace encourage us to change the shape of ourselves to the form of His Spirit & that is truth. Be blessed. FJ